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Readers' Forum #1 |
| Responses to "Commentary: The Internet and Heaven's Gate Mass Suicide" |
(See also Readers' Forum #2, comments on "Opinion: Technophobe Misses the Mark in Blame for Mass Suicide."
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Very nicely done, Mr. Edwards. However, you may have overlooked one
significant point....What if they're right?
— Richard
Oh, damn! You would have to bring that up. I guess it means were both doomed. Woe is me! Now, where did I leave that barbiturate cocktail?
— Larry |
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Amen, brother…amen.
A powerful message, Larry. I could not agree with you more…and I certainly could not have said it as well. — tom |
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Dear Larry,
Even if you weren't a friend whose wisdom I respect, I would still say that I agree with every word you wrote. I just learned about this tragedy today since I've been on a "news blackout" for sometime. (I was finishing a ring that I had cast recently at a local jewelers and heard the news.) What I've discovered is that my perception of life and events is colored by the news even though I'm a fairly discriminant viewer-reader. I've even started gauging events in my life by how "newsworthy" they are. Will the suicide, or recent stabbing of one of my students make the paper? Will the accident I witnessed be in the paper? If not, perhaps it wasn't as horrifying and fatal as it appeared. What sort of gauge is this? The only reason I've rambled on about this is that I agree with your analysis of the fascination the press has with computers, and internet, and "high technology." It is simply that. A fascination that leads to erroneous misdirection of concern.
Yours truly, |
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Bravo! I like what you wrote. Individuals following a cult (or a
snake-oil salesman's "bovine droppings") - and most religions, if not
all, are nothing more than that - demonstrate, in my eyes, the utmost
degree of ignorance. Of course, I keep my big mouth shut about this
most of the time.
— George |
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Hi Larry,
Just looked at your webpage .... Agreed with your commentary on the suicides, except for you clumping all the cults and other hucksters in with Christianity /unthinking people/ desperate hopes. I don't think we fit in the same category. — Ellen |
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> To me, all these things fall into the same category > in that they prey on the fore-lorn hopes of desperate > and/or unthinking people. This is about the stupidest thing I've read on the 'Net in a long time. Was it your goal to just be a contributor to all of the other trash that is on-line??? Or are you just an unthinking person??? — J.F.
John,
In your eyes, I'm probably an unthinking person.
However, my goal is to get people thinking about issues that affect us all, particularly in terms of the Internet and its future.
The event that happened in Rancho Santa Fe is being explained in terms of a Judeo/Christian perspective that dominates life in the U.S. and western culture in general. Who says that perspective is accurate simply because the majority lean toward those beliefs?
While there is no scientific evidence to support the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate folks — rather, their beliefs are scoffed at — it doesn't mean they're not accurate. Maybe the rest of us have it wrong. After all, conventional wisdom once said the sun — indeed, the entire universe — revolved around a flat Earth. As a society — culturally and scientifically — I’m not convinced we’re as enlightened as we like to think we are.
History has proven that a group of people can be led to endorse and follow just about any set of beliefs, given a charismatic individual to carry the flag and enough disciples to beat his or her drum (or carry the weapon de jeur).
My fear is that events such as the Heaven’s Gate mass suicide, and an attempt to find a scapegoat, will play into the hands of knee-jerk reactionaries and self-serving politicians looking for an excuse to grab headlines and create needless laws governing cyberspace.
If you haven’t already, I suggest you read my other commentary and the interchange between myself and readers. That will give you a better idea of where I’m coming from.
— Larry |
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It's encouraging to see such clear thinking and common sense amongst all
the the rubbish and hysteria that surrounds this incident. A lot of
people seem tempted to blaim the internet for this sort of occourance.
It is an unfortunate but recouring theme in modern society that people
blaim what they least understand for that which they do not like, and
the sooner people are informed of the real nature of the internet the
better.
— Joy |
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Larry,
And I always thought one had to have balls to succeed.... well now you know the secret of the Internet consulting business ... we shall be watching to see if you become an industry leader. In reply to how the "Web" or even high tech could be behind the mass suicide. That is illogical for both entities are vehicles which may speed the word to a greater audience more than any other publishing medium, but they are not the Word. Cults (and you may find that this is not the politically correct word) have existed for a hell of a long time. Suicide and murder associated with special events and dates is common. Comets, millenia for the chiliastic cults, and biblical aniversaries (there are plenty of selections of appropriate dates to herald the end of the world) all portend action. Aum Shinrikyo had a millenia/doomsday aspect, and their actions were both proof of the end of the world, as well as operational necessities. Oh, they sold computers too ... but that was to earn money, as it was with HG. Cults can be dangerous. There are more than 7,000 in this country. Technology (and I consider technology to be more than computers) assists these folks in their acts, there is no doubt. But so did the first printed word. There is no reason to do a Fahrenheit 451 on technology. There are going to be more deaths, willing and unwilling, as the millenium apporaches. If the leader chooses to wrap his cult's philosophy around technology and space ships as opposed to sex and making loud noises (Rajneesh - who did try to kill several people in The Dalles) so be it. — Hugo |
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I just read your commentary and couldn't agree w/you more. I feel it is
very unfortunate to blame this incident on the web----these people were
just lost souls(no pun intended) who were led around by an extremely
charismatic lunatic. Have we all forgotten about Jim Jones?
— Denise |
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Larry,
You wrote: BINGO !!! You have hit upon the simple truth that others seem to miss; it is the message, NOT the media of the message that was the source of the problem. Many years back, "Reverend" Jim Jones and many of his followers died in a mass death. Yet, The People's Temple NEVER used the Internet to gather their group of followers. If someone is going to blame the Internet for the rise of The Heaven's Gate Group, they should consider the fact that the group used written words to express their message. If the Internet is this "terrible" thing that allows such cults to grow, aren't written words just as guilty?
— Sincerely, |
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love to you man..........i agree 100%
it's almost amusing..... — G.B. |
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Did a story about this cult...they're intriguing....killing themselves in
such a cool and organized manner, which is different from the frenzy and
orgiastic mass-suicides of Jim Jones, David Koresh and the Sun Temple....I
defintely think this cult has something to do with the Internet...they are
no redneck fantatics, but the first case of 39 nerds killing themselves,
hoping Scotty will beam them up......a weird mix of apocalyptic
christianity and Star Trek.
Here we have a very small sect, having some media-attention in the '70s, then slowly disappearing. Somewhere in the '90s they discover the Internet, hope to make some converts there, and fail.. I think they desparately wanted our attention, considering the video's they sent, the websites, the sheer magnitude of the information they left behind. Some people do everything to be on television This was a very modern cult. I think nobody could have helped this people and I'm not to sad about their end... you never get out of this world alive... anyway...
— Coen van Zwol
Coen,
But I still contend that the Internet was merely one of many media types they used to get their message out. Does that make the Internet responsible? You say "Some people do everything to be on television." I agree. But does that mean that television is the reason these people believed the way they did? No more so than newspapers and the printed word are responsible. I just don't see how we can blame the medium for the way some people chose to use it.
— Larry |
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I'll have to check out the LA Times article. Today in the SD Union there
was an excerpt from an email conversation an 18 year old guy from Michigan
had with a Heaven's Gate member. The Heaven's Gate guy was flattering him
and trying to recruit him but the 18 year old sensed something was weird. It
just goes to show that you have to use common sense online as anywhere else.
bye. . . — Claire |
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Hi Larry,
I do agree that historically there have been numerous terrible things done in the name of Christianity. It's possible for a believer to be a nice, normal person or the most evil person on Earth...so nothing would surprise me in that respect. Including all Christians in the generalization that you made is as off-the-mark to me, as the assumption that Bill Gates, the internet and California sunshine were responsible for the mass suicide is to you. — Ellen |
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dear larry:
your commentary on the recent suicide by the Hale-Boppers waxed loquatious & resplendent. i didn't hear about it until 3/28. but it sure seems like america (and maybe the world) eagerly awaits (with baited printing presses) such pernicious acts of felo-de-se to occur. oh boy! big old enthralling front-page headlines that will surely relegate the pressing relevant issues of our time to the far back pages. (remember the year-long patty hearst media feeding frenzy in '75-'76? - remember the o j simpson media masterbation shenaneganza?...) the latter is what convinced us to attempt a news media blackout in our home. often someone i see during the day tells me about it anyway. but then at least it's a two way (interactive) conversation; a social intercourse. not a doom-infested monologue like the news media presents. you made some excellent points. i enjoyed it all thoroughly. however, for a man of your obvious wisdom, i was stunned and saddened to discover the word "RESPECTABILITY" mis-spelled. shame! if ya wants respect'bil'ty, ya gots ta be able ta spell it! again, congrats on a well written article chock-full of profundities and insights.
we miss seeing you in person. |
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Nice response! Very well done. — Snuffy |
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Hi Larry,
Thanks for the articles/commentaries on the Higher Source dudes and dudettes and I guess also the non-dudes or a-dudes. Anyway, there were two points you made at the end of your commentary that I especially liked and found astute on your part. 1) The thing about this happening within a week of Easter. As I was sitting through the 5 Easter church services for which I was playing my violin this season, and listening to the minister bring up the mass suicide thing 5 times in a row, I thought to myself how craftily planned it was of them to pick this time of year. I would venture to say they got mentioned in nearly every Easter church service throughout the country and maybe the world. You can't buy press like that. Anyway, you took it one level further by touching on the symbolic nature of what Easter stands for and how there is a subtle connection in what the Heaven's Gate gang were going for. Interesting. 2) The last paragraph of your commentary made a really great point too; one that I hadn't really thought much about. The point that it is likely that last week there were many more individual suicides than the 39 collective ones, but that none of the them were "sexy enough in the ratings-driven new environment" to write or report on. I must admit that between all those church services I was playing on Sunday morning I was glued to the articles in the LA Times. I could barely put the paper down to rosin my bow. I'm fascinated by this whole thing. It's a real intrigue to me on a sort of freak of nature level. And yes, this is an indication that I've fallen prey to all this sexy news coverage. Anyway, I liked that you pointed this out. Thinking people vs. unthinking people. I believe that all those teachers out there have the most valuable and important job on the planet. (Parents are teachers, too). That is, to raise and educate thinking, thoughtful, open-minded human beings — and also teach them a little music, too — it's good for the soul. (Yes, I guess I have my own ax to grind.) — J'Anna Jacoby |
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Once the news of the castrations came out, Diet Slice signed on as
the official soft drink of Heaven's Gate. OUCH!!!!!
— The Bernmeister |
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You've said it all in your last statement of this article. If these 39
people weren't "cult" members, and had been an assorted couple of dozen
people who had just given up on this world, and chose to end their life,
we wouldn't even have heard a whisper about it. But because the media,
the government, the world, has decided we have to get to the bottom of
this, it has gone into mass hysteria. If nothing else, the Heaven's
Gate group has probably recruited hundreds of new individuals, for no
other reason than to say that they now belong! You can lay pretty high
odds, that it will be a long time before you can access the Heaven's
Gate Home Page. I know, I've tried. Why? Curiosity, and a belief that
there is somewhere else we go after we die. Maybe not in a spaceship,
but I'm sure the trip feels like that.
— Carol M. |
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I am a struggling writer and I know what it takes. Well in this article, it
is my opinion that you were exactly right in your comparisons and
speculation. I also believe that our desire for simplicity drives us (as
humans) to reject any truth Heaven's Gate might have had. Well, keeping in
line with Christianity, we may never know until we die. :)
— J.H. |
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